One of those weeks, very interesting.

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by TommyBoy

Gordon,

I'll throw in my $0.02.

Perhaps it's good to step back and ask, "what is an org like AWAI doing right and what are they failiing students at?" (I know, what you are offering is superior to awai on many levels but hear me out).

If some numbers I saw recently are any indication, they're failing the students because they're not finishing. Why are they dropping off? Bad course? Uninteresting material? No sense of accomplishment? Disinterest in the industry? Lack of follow up?

Perhaps with the 30 lessons, you could incorporate what AWAI is doing well. I'm not even sure what that is but they seem to be able to market themselves well. They also have a variety of courses, sales letters, non-profits, business niches, etc. etc. Maybe they do variety well. Maybe not.

As a total newb myself, I see a large but unknown world of copywriting out there. Sure, there are a ton of resources to see and study, but what happens in the real world when the business owner is asking me what my expertise and copy can do for him?

For instance, I've been exploring local businesses lately. The common thing is, find what someone's doing poorly and rewrite it. To someone like me, I have no idea what that means. Sure I can understand taking a totally crappy hand-painted sign and revise that, but what about the small ad in a newspaper or yellow pages that needs rewritten or the web copy that works but is not stellar? How does an ok ad get to be a great ad that pulls the reader in within such a short space? Or even as you recently mentioned, buy the chattel item on CL and write a great craigslist ad to sell it. What are the elements of a great CL/FB/Bing ad?

Or, what are the different types of copywriting for local businesses? I know good copy is good copy is good copy, but how can you spot a crappy brochure from a great brochure, as an example?

I guess what I'm rambling on is to give the student a broad overview of what copywriting is while he is doing the assignments - or even have some assignments of looking at the crappy stuff and fixing it. Perhaps the student doesn't have a particular interest until you go over that "module." Then it clicks for that student. And then that becomes "the thing" to focus on.

Is this making any sense?

Thanks TommyBoy, makes a lot of sense. I spoke with a guy a couple of hours ago, and asked him to give me an idea of what he wants from this.

I ask everyone right up front what they see themselves doing in 2 years. And some honestly don't know, so we start with that, the whole what do you want question.

Now most people have been studying copywriting, and have a lot of book knowledge. Which is why the first couple of weeks is writing something to sell something. And within the writing and the marketing comes what comes with it all.

But, really, and this opinion comes under attack...but writing the right words isn't that difficult...IF

IF one studies human behavior. In fact, we, you and I have been doing similar research. Mine in advertising, and why so many 9x12 co-op postcard people can't do it or fall out. Their failure rate might be a lot higher than copywriters. So, why?

The reason, none of the groups address, is the PRICE. If you offer an ad on the postcard at the same price they are already paying, they resist.

But, what if you put a low cost out first, which makes them have an almost knee jerk reaction of, tell me about it.

It is now, them chasing you. Same thing with copy writing. You have to put your offers in terms they understand, results. You could write a great ad, but, it might be in the wrong place. So, all of that comes into play, which is what most of these Internet copy guys don't get. They use formulas and follow some scripts, and MAY get some results, but they don't know why.

The writing has to be done for a specific person, or audience. Sometimes a buy one get one free offer, like a pizza is all you need to say.

Gordon

[Glenn]

Thanks Gordon,

Interesting Co-incidence.

I am Testing which of a Series of "How to Make $ in 24 Hrs with Copywriting"
books to write first.

Did a BRIBE Test to my list.

===========
===========
A - Chocolate Cake Copywriting - The Energy Sponge Writing Method (V#1)

Subhead - IF You Feel Like Cr*p You Can’t Persuade in Print
(I am SLOW - It took a Swift KICK by a Billionaire Copywriter to Learn this.)
———-
B - Chocolate Cake Copywriting - How to Fight Writers Block And WIN (V#2)

(Subhead) - NEVER Face a Blank Page Again

———
C - Chocolate Cake Copywriting - Want More Moolah in 24 Hrs?(V#3)

(Subhead) Plug Your Content into these 7 NLP Thank You Letter offers
that made Btwn 1326.11 and 186,414.34 in 24 hrs - Again & Again.
———

D - CHOCO CAKE COPYWRITING - The Billion Dollar NLP Template That Makes You Moolah from Home
(V#4)

(SUBHEAD) PLUS - 3 Proven Variations We've Adapted to S-ell On-Line

===========
===========

RESULTS?

Popular Product Idea. Lots of Responses.

But Letter C and D - almost tied.

SO.

Whilst BEFORE I was planning to Write them in #1 thru #4 Order.

Now I will Write #3 and #4 Books FIRST.

***C - Chocolate Cake Copywriting - Want More Moolah in 24 Hrs?(V#3)

***D - CHOCO CAKE COPYWRITING - The Billion Dollar NLP Template That Makes You Moolah from Home (V#4)

WHY
SHARE my test with you?

It seems that BASED ON This TEST.

Moolah Making SPEED
AND
The Credentials or PROOF of Previous Results

Might be IMPORTANT to the POPULARITY of any Copywriting Course you Create.

Thanks,
Glenn

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Thanks Gordon,

Interesting Co-incidence.

I am Testing which of a Series of "How to Make $ in 24 Hrs with Copywriting"
books to write first.

Did a BRIBE Test to my list.

===========
===========
A - Chocolate Cake Copywriting - The Energy Sponge Writing Method (V#1)

Subhead - IF You Feel Like Cr*p You Can’t Persuade in Print
(I am SLOW - It took a Swift KICK by a Billionaire Copywriter to Learn this.)
———-
B - Chocolate Cake Copywriting - How to Fight Writers Block And WIN (V#2)

(Subhead) - NEVER Face a Blank Page Again

———
C - Chocolate Cake Copywriting - Want More Moolah in 24 Hrs?(V#3)

(Subhead) Plug Your Content into these 7 NLP Thank You Letter offers
that made Btwn 1326.11 and 186,414.34 in 24 hrs - Again & Again.
———

D - CHOCO CAKE COPYWRITING - The Billion Dollar NLP Template That Makes You Moolah from Home
(V#4)

(SUBHEAD) PLUS - 3 Proven Variations We've Adapted to S-ell On-Line

===========
===========

RESULTS?

Popular Product Idea. Lots of Responses.

But Letter C and D - almost tied.

SO.

Whilst BEFORE I was planning to Write them in #1 thru #4 Order.

Now I will Write #3 and #4 Books FIRST.

***C - Chocolate Cake Copywriting - Want More Moolah in 24 Hrs?(V#3)

***D - CHOCO CAKE COPYWRITING - The Billion Dollar NLP Template That Makes You Moolah from Home (V#4)

WHY
SHARE my test with you?

It seems that BASED ON This TEST.

Moolah Making SPEED
AND
The Credentials or PROOF of Previous Results

Might be IMPORTANT to the POPULARITY of any Copywriting Course you Create.

Thanks,
Glenn

We're not about to compete in that market. And we're not making a course to be sold to lots of people

We were looking for a handful of copywriters, who can learn how to write our way, and get results, which result in ongoing assignments and potential long term contracts.

The problem with all courses, or books, is they are what they are. I mean a book is static, contains what it has.

Ours is dynamic, custom created, one-off, one-of-a-kind, personalized lesson plans designed around what our "consumer" brings to the table.

Not everyone needs to start at basics, or reread or rehash over certain ideas about writing copy.

I get that most of your people, and from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong)...only about 10% of your visitors actually take the challenge...so if you are only testing to your lists, or as Colin Theriot might put it, to your "cult", it may not be the best indicator for a general public copy course, right?

I have no desire to deal with people, and, this can be taken anyway the reader wants...but, what I know, is too advanced for copywriters and marketers looking to fleece more fungalos from the flock.

But, I do appreciate your tests results, seem to confirm Ben Suarez' adage of 30 years ago...

Tell me quick and tell me true
Or my love, to hell with you.

Moolah making speed fuels IM.

Credentials? I like the idea of case studies, perhaps I'll add some to our Small Reports course.

http://www.writerstollbooth.com/jb/

Like, Bud Riggs doing 10,000 in his first week, 25 the first month.
Or Skip Rosell's 1,000 dollars a day for his first week with one of his reports.
Or the 250 Hunting and Fishing HOTSHEETS which Pete Egeler sold in a day.

Real case studies, from real people sharing results. Yea, I like that, we can probably incorporate that, THANKS.

Gordon Jay

PS. NOT case studies for the billionaires, but for other "fly low" types, especially family guys who have families to consider and don't need a Maserati in the garage.

[Glenn]

Thanks Gordon,

You are right - of course.

But.

My Test Results DID get you to Explain more about what you are doing.

AND

I had not considered "Bundling" a Series of my short "Heroin-In-Print"
Copywriting Reports together to Test.

So.

Muchas Gracias.

I'll make some moolah with your idea then Order Your "Bundling For Bucks"
Info.

Thanks,
Glenn