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I totally agree Richard, except I don't...
> Anyway the desire part is really the most
> important part of the whole AIDA concept and
> in fact it's the most important part of any
> Here's why........
> For any kind of marketing to work, whether
> it's AIDA or anything else you use, there
> has to be some level of built in 'want'.
> Your prospect must actually want what you're
> selling to some degree.
> Makes sense right??
Yes this make sense and I totally agree, however,
I started my selling career at 7 or 8 selling flowers door-to-door.
Now, I've written about my "mentor" who probably taught me as much about selling as anyone...and how he gave me books to read on selling.
The problem I had (or one of them) was this:
the flowers I was selling, I had picked for FREE in a field behind most of the houses I was selling to.
It was an old nursery that had been abandon and gone to seed, I drove Dien by it looking for the lone sentinel that still pops up every Spring and serves as a reminder to what once was, it is a daffodil.
So, how do you sell something people can get for free if they WANTED them?
The first book I read at 8 was Elmer Wheeler's "Tested Sentences". the second was Elmer Leterman's "The SALE begins when the customer says NO."
But I was able to sell FLOWERS to people who really didn't WANT them, or else they would have gone into the field and picked the flowers themselves.
But maybe I was just too darn cute to resist?
Maybe, a couple of years ago I took a part-time Summer job selling FROZEN meat off the back of a Pick-up truck.
Ever have one of THOSE guys knock on your door?
HELLO, that was me. And I did it to test myself, my selling skills, to see if I still could walk the talk, because I try to encouarge everyone to take at least one selling job in their lives.
Preferably door-to-door. The list is fairly impressive of people who have done this.
NOW, door to door is hardly TARGETED marketing, and you rarely encounter people who WANT what you are selling.
So here is where I disagree with the concept somewhat.
It is my job as a marketer to MAKE them want it.
Because maybe they didn't know it even existed before I showed up. I met men who make six figure incomes selling frozen steaks from the back of a pick-up truck. Who in their right mind would WANT this? Or even BUY this?
That is what I thought as I started to sell it. First thing I did was to buy a case myself. Then I had a party, and cooked the meat in the box.
First day on the job I sold 3 cases within the first hour. To complete strangers. NONE of whom wanted what I had to sell.
At 259 bucks a pop. That was over 750 dollars in sales in the first hour, I learned HOW some of these guys could make 60 and 70 thousand dollars a year.
I didn't believe it at first. But after a few days on the job, I could see how easy it could be FOR THE RIGHT KIND OF PERSON.
In between the flowers of my youth and the Pick-up Steak experiment...I have sold a lot of stuff...door-to-door when I needed some really quick bucks.
Stuff that no ONE wanted per se. Like the DEFENDER OF WOMEN, or the Victory Miracle Polishing Cloth...a couple of my bread and butter winners.
Or when I sold businesses on Action Ads, which were clocks placed in pizza shops and dry cleaners, and the ads would rotate in a neon lighted frame.
Or TVs, VCRs, Stereo Equipment...although this is a different type of selling because they come to you in a retail environment...but DAK and Comstrad, and JS&A did OK selling stuff people WANTED after they were sold on it.
NOT told about it, but carefully crafted SALES attempts to get you to WANT it.
> Well it never ceases to amaze me how many
> people fall in love with a product, spend
> valuable time and money, only to discover
> that no one wants the product.
NOW this I agreee with, and as I've written about below, I too have done this. I think my SQUARE ONE WORKSHOPS might fall into this category. But I don't know yet. I havent' really tried to SELL it either.
> And everyone of them was because the market
> just wasn't there. It was hard to imagine
> anyone wanting or desiring what they had in
I agree here too, but experience has taught me that MARKETS can be created. The INNOVATOR takes the risks, then the rest of the group follows safely on tested and proven methodology...
for example, Ben Suarez used the COMIC section, and ran full page ads, it was unheard of at the time, there was no MARKET there.
But, he built a huge winner from those ads, and his company keeps chugging away to the tune of 125+ million dollars a year.
Was there a MARKET for the Heraldry Name idea that Gary Halbert came up with?
The "Nancy" Letter is one of the greatest pieces of salesmanship in print ever created. There was NO market with money burning a hole in it's pocket, just waiting for Sir Gary to ride in and take it.
The MARKET was created. By the product. And more importantly by the SALESMANSHIP.
Innovators almost always inroduce product before market. Steven Jobs had a market for the PC?
There was no obvious market are
> everyone of them had already selected or
> thought up the product first.
Which is my point and opinion, it is OK to do that as long as you know that innovation is the harder road, the least likely to succeed, the one that requires the most work, BUT, may also have the greater payoff.
In sales, the RISK/REWARD idea as shown on the Pictogrigm of Finances holds true, just as it does in investment worlds.
> I'm going off the trail here, so let's get
> back on it.
> The number one rule of successful selling
> (in my mind at least) is that you must have
> a market who actually wants what you're
> thinking of selling.
And here is where I agree, for the beginner, or for the marketer who wants a "sure thing", or as close as possible as you can get to one.
Don't get me wrong, I've said the same thing for a dozen years. MARKET FIRST, product second.
But, I've seen the exceptions. In 1985 WHO wanted a VCR? Product came first, then it was up to people like me to SELL them.
Same with the CD player when it first arrived? Who would buy that, although you could argure there is always a MARKET for music...so I'd have to conceed that point.
> Don't find a product first, although it's
> not wrong to do so, but when you find the
> product first, you tend to fall in love with
> it and then get blindsided by it's
> attraction which doesn't always equate to
Now here is an AMEN to that statement. I agree.
> Find a market first, they're all around you
> everyday. This board shows an obvious one
> that has included many best selling books
> and programs.
The PROBLEM that very few talk about is the COMPETITION for a market. Take the whole biz-op/money making market. Going to go away?
Hardly. But is it harder to compete in? Jim Straw, a man who has sold MILLIONS of dollars of stuff via mailorder addressed this on another forum recently, saying that there is a LOT more choices for people, and that thins the stew for the market.
Here's a market...Internet Marketing...
How many books and courses and web sites are dedicated to this MARKET (1/2 the net, right? HA!)
But a person can only read so much, learn so much, spend so much money that it would be in my opinion a harder market to CONTINUOUSLY pump the money from.
And marketers like to and should go to the well that gives them water.
But at some point the MARKET gets too thin or saturated...until an INNOVATOR comes up with a different way to market.
> In fact I've found my last two projects at
> public discussion boards and they were quite
There is not a day that goes by that at least ONE good idea shows up at a forum. FREE for anyone who wants to run with it. But that is also part of the problem, getting people to DO.
> Also when you're looking for targets to
> market to, usually stay within you're
Again, I agree, but also DISAGREE. I may not know BEANS about astrology, but if I know there is a hungry market in this case and I have access to a person/company with products of interest, here is where the JV comes in handy. Most people don't regard a JV as a marketing effort, but it most definitely is.
If you like pink hats (no I
> don't) then see if there are any other
> people who like wearing pink hats. No we're
> not looking for a product to sell (colored
> hats) we're looking for a market of people
> who like wearing pink hats where we may be
> able to develop another product or package
But, if you are an INNOVATOR, you create a PINK hat, get Madonna in days gone by or today Brittany Spears to wear a pink hat in her next video...and write a hit song about how cool pink hats are...you CREATE THE MARKET...
Sound FAR OUT?
Well, I guess I could throw out Gary Dahl and the PET ROCK for an example...any MARKET there?
Totally created for the product. Yes there was a gift market. Yes there was an "unusual gift" market (and as an aside, take note, Spencer Gifts is making a comeback, do you have a crazy gift idea?)
> You can search for markets within your own
> interests, but don't find products in your
> interests and then try to find markets, it's
> too easy to fall in love with the product.
AMEN again. Don't fall in love, test test test.
But you can use other people's INTERESTS same as you can use their talent, their money or their time. Fall in love with what you are doing.
Within the DOING, a part of that might be marketing, might be product development, might be innovation, might be acquistion of a cash cow.
Just love the day and the processes of the day.
> This may sound a little confusing, but you
> just need to keep it simple.....
> Market-Product-Marketing(AIDA). Get all
> three right and you'll have a winner on your
The PROBLEM Richard is it is NOT simple. It is NOT something everyone can do. Finding a MARKET takes incredibly hard work. Finding and testing a product is arduous. Marketing is hardly as simple as AIDA. Although that plays an important part in one of the sales processes that take place.
The reason there are so many SCAM sites, and the reason so many people start and quit businesses every year is because it is NOT simple or easy.
It is hard dang work.
> Before I use MPM, I always go through the
> Income-CustomerNumber-Price to establish how
> much I want to make from my project,
This is an excellent way to do it. But it is only one way. And you are an experienced marketer with a lot of success. My thing is this: skills of success are not easily transferrable or even easily acquired. MOST people who attempt to just use the AIDA formula come in too far up the line, before they know WHY they are even doing what they are doing.
MOST people are not cut out to do the AIDA formula either in person or by REMOTE MEANS. It is my opinion that these are skills that can be hired out, and free the Entrepreneur to do other things.
Case in point, Rick Smith, the Net Guerrilla, once he let the PROS do his graphic, it was a catalyst to help him FOCUS in on what he does best. So, as simple as a graphic might be for some people, if it is not the right one, then the AIDA formula falls apart at the outset, because you may have captured attention, but for the wrong reasons.
> I've droned on for long enough here, I'll
> save it for another day if we get talking
> about marketing again.
NO you can never DRONE on long enough here, we like DRONING, my picture is next to it in the dictionary.
I appreciate your sharing your expertise with us, you have done some remarkable things, I for one am dying to know some of those inside secrets, but alas, I don't have the time to do it. Nor the want. You are going to have sell me.
> Just remember, when you use the AIDA
> formula, you've already found a market that
> has a certain hunger for what you're
> offering, therefore it has built in desire.
> Using the Desire part of AIDA is where you
> build on that established want.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT, except where I might have disagreed above. OK?
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