MichaelRoss
July 23, 2008, 02:31 AM
Sandi,
Thanks for trying to uphold the Man Made GW end.
"The argument about the cycling of the earth over the millenia doesn't apply these days. Why? Because we are the first known inhabitants who have the capacity to drastically change the face of the earth in such a way as to disrupt the natural ebb and flow of earth's cycles."
So let me get this straight...
The Warm period we had 130,000 years ago (with warmer weather than current) was natural. The Warm period we had 240,000 years ago (with temps around the same as current) was natural. The warm period we had around 330,000 years ago (with warmer temps than current) was also natural. The warm period we had around 410,000 year ago was natural. But this time, the warm period which only started some 10-20,000 year ago... even though the warming (from bottomed out temps to top) only took around 10-20,000 years in the previous times, just like this time... but this time, it's man's CO2 output that's done it. Not the increased volcanic activity spewing billions of tons of crud into the atmosphere in one single eruption, the Tunguska Event http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event of 1908 has nothing to do with crud in the atmosphere. Mt St Hellens was nothing. The Sun's solar flares and magnetic bursts and cycles also have nothing to do with it - even though they did in the past.
Is that? Is that the essence of what you're getting at? That This time - even though it fits perfectly with the rough 100,000 year warming/cooling cycle of the past - this time is man's CO2 output? Which is a Speck of the 0.06% of atmosphere which is CO2 from other sources?
Look. Granted we, as a species, can devastate the land and cause changes in local-ecological ways. Like clogging up rivers and streams with debris from refuse, strip mining, land degradation and so on. Like creating high salt levels in soil by removing all the trees that once kept the salt levels in check.
But we can't heat up a planet by driving SUVs or using electricity any more than an Indian can make it rain by doing a jig.
The only constant thing about the Earth's weather is... it's not constant. It is forever changing. The continents are shifting - which causes changes in water flowing around the planet and the way the air circulates. The Sun is always cycling. Throughout the year we Wobble from axis to axis and get Seasons as a result. Where there are now Himalayan mountains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayas their used to be sea bed (and as they are still growing, the change in air flow through and around these mountains alone is Massive and Always changing).
Hundreds of years ago farming was going on in Greenland - must have been warmer then, right? But now, that wouldn't be possible.
Remember the year without Summer?
Thirty years ago the chicken little cry was... Ice Age. Now it's the complete opposite. And both endorsed by scientists of the time with so-called Proof.
So what, from Ice Age to Global Melt Down in 30 years?
Geeze, I remember talking with a Scientist 30 years ago who had data that the yearly build up and break up of the North and South poles was not consistent. One pole was building more and breaking down less than the other. His concern was... the excess ice at one pole more than the other could cause additional wobble in the Earth's yearly wobble and total FUBAR our weather.
The only constant is change. And this planet's weather will cycle whether man is here or not.
Michael Ross
Thanks for trying to uphold the Man Made GW end.
"The argument about the cycling of the earth over the millenia doesn't apply these days. Why? Because we are the first known inhabitants who have the capacity to drastically change the face of the earth in such a way as to disrupt the natural ebb and flow of earth's cycles."
So let me get this straight...
The Warm period we had 130,000 years ago (with warmer weather than current) was natural. The Warm period we had 240,000 years ago (with temps around the same as current) was natural. The warm period we had around 330,000 years ago (with warmer temps than current) was also natural. The warm period we had around 410,000 year ago was natural. But this time, the warm period which only started some 10-20,000 year ago... even though the warming (from bottomed out temps to top) only took around 10-20,000 years in the previous times, just like this time... but this time, it's man's CO2 output that's done it. Not the increased volcanic activity spewing billions of tons of crud into the atmosphere in one single eruption, the Tunguska Event http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event of 1908 has nothing to do with crud in the atmosphere. Mt St Hellens was nothing. The Sun's solar flares and magnetic bursts and cycles also have nothing to do with it - even though they did in the past.
Is that? Is that the essence of what you're getting at? That This time - even though it fits perfectly with the rough 100,000 year warming/cooling cycle of the past - this time is man's CO2 output? Which is a Speck of the 0.06% of atmosphere which is CO2 from other sources?
Look. Granted we, as a species, can devastate the land and cause changes in local-ecological ways. Like clogging up rivers and streams with debris from refuse, strip mining, land degradation and so on. Like creating high salt levels in soil by removing all the trees that once kept the salt levels in check.
But we can't heat up a planet by driving SUVs or using electricity any more than an Indian can make it rain by doing a jig.
The only constant thing about the Earth's weather is... it's not constant. It is forever changing. The continents are shifting - which causes changes in water flowing around the planet and the way the air circulates. The Sun is always cycling. Throughout the year we Wobble from axis to axis and get Seasons as a result. Where there are now Himalayan mountains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayas their used to be sea bed (and as they are still growing, the change in air flow through and around these mountains alone is Massive and Always changing).
Hundreds of years ago farming was going on in Greenland - must have been warmer then, right? But now, that wouldn't be possible.
Remember the year without Summer?
Thirty years ago the chicken little cry was... Ice Age. Now it's the complete opposite. And both endorsed by scientists of the time with so-called Proof.
So what, from Ice Age to Global Melt Down in 30 years?
Geeze, I remember talking with a Scientist 30 years ago who had data that the yearly build up and break up of the North and South poles was not consistent. One pole was building more and breaking down less than the other. His concern was... the excess ice at one pole more than the other could cause additional wobble in the Earth's yearly wobble and total FUBAR our weather.
The only constant is change. And this planet's weather will cycle whether man is here or not.
Michael Ross
