Making The Sale...

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by Ankesh

Do you really want to know the reason?

I can let you in on the secret... if you really want to know.

Hi Ankesh,

I wanna know! Please spill the beans...!

By the way, on a related note, there's an interesting book called "the Manual" by a band called "The KLF". They had worldwide #1 hits in the late 1980s and early 1990s, with songs like "Justified and Ancient" and "3 am eternal". How did they do it?

They stole!

In their book, "The Manual", they explain how while melodies are protected by copyright, beats are not. So they'd go around to the dance clubs to hear which beats were "hot" (based on audience reaction). Then, they'd incorporate those beats into their own songs.

Also, just like infomercials often use "stars" of the past, and just like many movies build on earlier successes (such as by remaking earlier TV series) - they used the same principles in music. So they had a hit in the UK called "Doctoring the Tardis" which remade an old TV theme (from the British show, "Dr. Who"). Also, in the song "Justified and Ancient", they brought in the talents of Tammy Wynette to sing vocals - which also got them some attention (and that song was a worldwide hit)!

And other bands have had #1 hits studying and following the principles they laid out in "the Manual"...

However, I ain't studied the secrets of hip hop...

Cheers,

Dien

[Ankesh]

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

I wanna know! Please spill the beans...!

Thanks Dien

1.

Todays extreme is tomorrows mainstream.

As Chartreuse says: "you must understand the extremes if you want to understand the future because that’s where the middle (the mainstream) comes from."

2.

While Eminem and 50 Cent have earned the most out of Rap / Hip Hop - its influence could be seen well before they came to the scene.

Tupac has been rapping since 1991.

Wu Tang Clan started in 1993. (They have a fascinating story of how they banded together to become famous and conquer the hip hop market.)

But in the 1990s - only a select niche listened to Hip Hop. Most of these artists as well as listeners were African American.

In the 1990s, Hip Hop was the extreme. In 2000 - it became the mainstream.

3.

“Every generation needs a new revolution.” - Thomas Jefferson

How could the white kids rebel?

Kids started wearing baggy pants and listening to Hip Hop. It started out as a form of rebellion. (Rebellion to what? Read a bit below...)

Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley have become Tupac Shakur and Eminem, and the Baby Boomers' reaction to them is much like their own parents' reaction to Chuck and Elvis. But instead of saying, "Take a bath, cut your hair and get a job," we're saying, "Pull those pants up, spin that cap around and wash your mouth out with soap." - Roy H. Williams

A point is to be made about "Peer Pressure." Most kids didn't understand Hip Hop. But still liked it. Why? Because their friends liked it.

Every big phenomena has only a handful trend setters. While most are trend followers. Its the same with Hip Hop too.

4.

But if rebellion was all it was, Hip Hop would have been a fad. It isn't. The reason for that?

The trend setters loved Hip Hop for what it conveyed and what it stood for. In one phrase:

Down with fakery.

In one word, they craved:

Authenticity.

The revolt was against years of accumulated hype. Against perfectionism.

"I'm stupid, I'm ugly, I'm dumb, I smell. Did I mention I'm stupid?" - Eminem

Do you now understand why "Be Real" has been the Hip Hop mantra?

This rebellion against hype can be seen in other arenas too. Roy H. Williams said it best in a workshop I attended:

Yesterdays James Bond is todays Jason Bourne.

James Bond was always dressed perfect and rode the hottest car with the best gadgets. Jason Bourne? Has amnesia. Rides banged up cars he stole. Has no super weapon.

The last James Bond movie didn't do as well as it used to do 10 years ago. The last Jason Bourne movie?

It may have started out with Hip Hop and kids. But the whole world is revolting against perfectionism. Give us authenticity instead.

Action Summary:

Its ok to have faults and reveal them.

If you want the world to like you and buy from you, be authentic*. Be yourself. Don't sugarcoat your faults (instead - try fixing them). Be real.

* Don't fake it. Remember Janet Jackson. Her stunt blew up in her face not because she showed a boob on TV. But because she faked it and was found out.

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by Ankesh

Todays extreme is tomorrows mainstream.

As Chartreuse says: "you must understand the extremes if you want to understand the future because that’s where the middle (the mainstream) comes from."

Hi Ankesh,

Thanks... That's very interesting... And I think you're right!

As you point out, you could say the same for practically any new "trend", I think. Nowadays, everybody uses computers, but 30 years ago, they were mainly used by geeky hobbyists (which is the background people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs came from). So, 30 years ago, they were "extreme"...

Fascinating - certainly gives you a lot of food for thought. What are the "extremes" of today which will become the "mainstream" of tomorrow?

Another example I can think of is body piercing, lip piercing, belly-button piercing, and so on. That used to be extreme, but it's much more mainstream nowadays. (It's probably still a little bit "extreme", but a lot less than it used to be.)

Your comments on "authenticity" are good too. I like to think that "authenticity" will always be in "vogue", but I dunno. However, Milli Vanilli (for those of us old enough to remember) fell from grace due to lack of authenticity...

Thanks Ankesh! Some great "gold" there...

Cheers,

Dien

P.S. If you haven't already, check out Ankesh's BlogClout How To Grow Your Blog Traffic blog (if you have an ounce of marketing blood in you). There's some great stuff there too.

[Ankesh]

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

As you point out, you could say the same for practically any new "trend", I think. Nowadays, everybody uses computers, but 30 years ago, they were mainly used by geeky hobbyists (which is the background people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs came from). So, 30 years ago, they were "extreme"...

Precisely. I forgot who said this, but the quote went like:

The future is already here. Its just unevenly distributed.

Not all the extremes of today will become the mainstream of tomorrow. But quite a few will. I've long been fascinated by what new thing remains a fad and what new thing hits the mainstream. Which idea has legs?

I think, the understanding of the past helps a lot in predicting the future.

For example, I just read about a new sport that I predict will be quite big in the next 10-15 years. The sport is "Urban croquet."

Its a modification of croquet - and can be played anywhere. You don't need to search for gardens to play the game on. The game was created by an industrial designer for her thesis.

I think its only been played on a couple of college campuses till now. But it has the potential to go big. Because something like it has already been a grand success before. And there aren't any big resistance factors to slow the growth of the sport.

Its one of the few "outdoor" games that girls and boys can play together - and have an equal chance of winning.

Another big hit I think will be the segway. It will come down in price once the patents have expired. And then you'll see segways everywhere.

Because - they require no fuel to run. And are easier to drive then the bicycle. The only thing stopping its success is the high prices.

Even with the high prices, they are growing by 50% each year. And selling I think about 30,000-35,000 Segways a year. If they start costing as less as bikes do, millions of people will buy them.

Another new sport that will then gain prominence is "Segway Polo." Playing polo on Segways instead of on horses.

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

Your comments on "authenticity" are good too. I like to think that "authenticity" will always be in "vogue", but I dunno.

I don't think authenticity will ever be out of vogue either. But there is a pendulum between "Style" and "Substance."

Sometimes, the society will focus on style more than substance. Other times, they will focus more on substance than style.

Ankesh,

Thanks for the "Hip Hop History...Marketing" lesson.

Here's a piece of Hip Hop Trivia that someone had told me in a conversation.

Do you know where the "baggy pants" style originated?

I'm talking about "Hip Hop Heads" wearing their jeans down below their buttocks.

Any idea??

Originally Posted by Ankesh

Thanks Dien

1.

Todays extreme is tomorrows mainstream.

As Chartreuse says: "you must understand the extremes if you want to understand the future because that’s where the middle (the mainstream) comes from."

2.

While Eminem and 50 Cent have earned the most out of Rap / Hip Hop - its influence could be seen well before they came to the scene.

Tupac has been rapping since 1991.

Wu Tang Clan started in 1993. (They have a fascinating story of how they banded together to become famous and conquer the hip hop market.)

But in the 1990s - only a select niche listened to Hip Hop. Most of these artists as well as listeners were African American.

In the 1990s, Hip Hop was the extreme. In 2000 - it became the mainstream.

3.

“Every generation needs a new revolution.” - Thomas Jefferson

How could the white kids rebel?

Kids started wearing baggy pants and listening to Hip Hop. It started out as a form of rebellion. (Rebellion to what? Read a bit below...)

Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley have become Tupac Shakur and Eminem, and the Baby Boomers' reaction to them is much like their own parents' reaction to Chuck and Elvis. But instead of saying, "Take a bath, cut your hair and get a job," we're saying, "Pull those pants up, spin that cap around and wash your mouth out with soap." - Roy H. Williams

A point is to be made about "Peer Pressure." Most kids didn't understand Hip Hop. But still liked it. Why? Because their friends liked it.

Every big phenomena has only a handful trend setters. While most are trend followers. Its the same with Hip Hop too.

4.

But if rebellion was all it was, Hip Hop would have been a fad. It isn't. The reason for that?

The trend setters loved Hip Hop for what it conveyed and what it stood for. In one phrase:

Down with fakery.

In one word, they craved:

Authenticity.

The revolt was against years of accumulated hype. Against perfectionism.

"I'm stupid, I'm ugly, I'm dumb, I smell. Did I mention I'm stupid?" - Eminem

Do you now understand why "Be Real" has been the Hip Hop mantra?

This rebellion against hype can be seen in other arenas too. Roy H. Williams said it best in a workshop I attended:

Yesterdays James Bond is todays Jason Bourne.

James Bond was always dressed perfect and rode the hottest car with the best gadgets. Jason Bourne? Has amnesia. Rides banged up cars he stole. Has no super weapon.

The last James Bond movie didn't do as well as it used to do 10 years ago. The last Jason Bourne movie?

It may have started out with Hip Hop and kids. But the whole world is revolting against perfectionism. Give us authenticity instead.

Action Summary:

Its ok to have faults and reveal them.

If you want the world to like you and buy from you, be authentic*. Be yourself. Don't sugarcoat your faults (instead - try fixing them). Be real.

* Don't fake it. Remember Janet Jackson. Her stunt blew up in her face not because she showed a boob on TV. But because she faked it and was found out.

[Ankesh]

Thanks Duane.

I've heard that baggy pants originated from prison - but am not sure if thats true or just a myth...

Hi Ankesh,

Thanks for Playing :->

THAT was what I heard as well. Specifically "Chuck D" from the old Hip Hop Group Public enemy had come to our city for some kind of symposium.

And I heard he "Schooled" the attendees on what the real deal was with the baggy trouser.

I believe it is fact. Here is what on Historian said.

http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/p...template=apart

"The style originated in prisons and picked up steam with the hip-hop scene, said Southern University History Department professor Raymond Lockett.

"Prisoners are not allowed to have belts and shoe laces. Since they can't have belts, their pants are saggy and our young people are picking up that style.

"A lot of people are making a lot of money with our youngsters with that style of dress," Lockett said."

So I believe it did originate from prisons.

Pretty Interesting.

Here is a review of some of the thoughts from one of Chuck D's university presentations. He shares his thoughts on MORE than just baggy pants.

http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/article.cfm?id=5350

Originally Posted by Ankesh

Thanks Duane.

I've heard that baggy pants originated from prison - but am not sure if thats true or just a myth...

Duane,

Thanks for asking about Baggy Pants.

I heard... it started due to Hand-Me-Down clothes. Obviously the big brother's clothes were too big. BUT, for some reason, some kids thoughts those kids in hand-me-downs were Cool and off it goes. (And it's now pushed as cool.)

This makes sense as I've heard from several parents bewildered why their children want to Act and dress like the School Drongos who they think of as Cool for some reason.

And while I am here... Ankesh... there is Nothing Authentic about those Rappers - and Rap Crap started BEFORE the 90s. It started in the 80s.

You cannot tell me 50 cent and M&M are Authentic when they don't even use their real name. It ain't about being Authentic... it's about being Controversial. And if it upsets the kids parents then the kids go for it.

From the Beatles with their Long Hair to the gyrating hips of Elvis... it's all about the Controversy. Just ask Madonna.

Michael Ross

Hmm Hand Me Down clothes ? I never heard that one before.

Hmm, In my reply to Ankesh's post above I have a link to Chuck D's presentation at a university. While the article does not discuss his views on baggy pants. The article does state that Chuck D encourages Critical thinking

Thought you might find some of what he says interesting.


D on current rap music and hip hop stars:

"Someone performed a lobotomy on rap music and hip hop...It's debatable whether the soul is still there...More and more you see rappers who don't have words in their vocabularies."

eg. Chuck D on education

"Remember, human beings are the most valuable, most important resource on the planet...If money is your God, then you'll tap dance for governments, for anything. Leave here tonight with your own mind to think for yourself. Don't be a robot."

D on consumerism and how corporations market their goods:

"The feeling is that if you ain't buying something then you ain't nothing. [It's as if] you have to suck up to some corporation to legitimize your existence."

He some interesting views on government I think you'll find...interesting as well.

http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/article.cfm?id=5350

Originally Posted by MichaelRoss

Duane,

Thanks for asking about Baggy Pants.

I heard... it started due to Hand-Me-Down clothes. Obviously the big brother's clothes were too big. BUT, for some reason, some kids thoughts those kids in hand-me-downs were Cool and off it goes. (And it's now pushed as cool.)

This makes sense as I've heard from several parents bewildered why their children want to Act and dress like the School Drongos who they think of as Cool for some reason.

And while I am here... Ankesh... there is Nothing Authentic about those Rappers - and Rap Crap started BEFORE the 90s. It started in the 80s.

You cannot tell me 50 cent and M&M are Authentic when they don't even use their real name. It ain't about being Authentic... it's about being Controversial. And if it upsets the kids parents then the kids go for it.

From the Beatles with their Long Hair to the gyrating hips of Elvis... it's all about the Controversy. Just ask Madonna.

Michael Ross

Dien,

Thanks for the reference.

The book "The Manual" is $980 bux used on amazon...??

Must have been some kinda book :->

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

Hi Ankesh,

I wanna know! Please spill the beans...!

By the way, on a related note, there's an interesting book called "the Manual" by a band called "The KLF". They had worldwide #1 hits in the late 1980s and early 1990s, with songs like "Justified and Ancient" and "3 am eternal". How did they do it?

They stole!

In their book, "The Manual", they explain how while melodies are protected by copyright, beats are not. So they'd go around to the dance clubs to hear which beats were "hot" (based on audience reaction). Then, they'd incorporate those beats into their own songs.

Also, just like infomercials often use "stars" of the past, and just like many movies build on earlier successes (such as by remaking earlier TV series) - they used the same principles in music. So they had a hit in the UK called "Doctoring the Tardis" which remade an old TV theme (for the British show, "Dr. Who"). Also, in the song "Justified and Ancient", they brought in the talents of Tammy Wynette to sing vocals - which also got them some attention (and that song was a worldwide hit)!

And other bands have had #1 hits studying and following the principles they laid out in "the Manual"...

However, I ain't studied the secrets of hip hop...

Cheers,

Dien