TW (and others) Very good discussin. IMHO

Originally Posted by MichaelRoss

TW,

Thanks for adding some more.

As you acknowledge that Bugging people does no good for if-you-need-it-you-need-it-if-you-don't-you-don't types of business, then the statement about Bugging is not all encompassing. Thus you must also accept that these if-you-need-it-you-need-it-if-you-don't-you-don't business are more your Magnetic types of business.

>>>>>>>>>> Yes. Or, they could benefit from 'magnetic' (or 'passive') mrktng.

I understand you can accept that. But what gets your goat is calling a Push Marketing Method a Pull Method. When hinting that ALL/ANY business is actually a if-you-need-it-you-need-it-if-you-don't-you-don't type of business when that just isn't the case.

>>>>>>>>> At the risk of getting too cofusing (I know, I know -- "Tooooo late!"), I didn't say that. I said the opposite. I said most biz's are not if-you-need-it-you-need-it-if-you-don't-you-don't types of biz's. I said many THINK they are, when they are not. Very few biz's truly are if-you-need-it-you-need-it-if-you-don't-you-don't types. Any category that does especially well in the classifieds, yellow pages, or online ARE the if-you-need-it-you-need-it-if-you-don't-you-don't types. It's a DISADVANTAGE to be in that category, because you must realy on the already-existing momentum. The 'pressure' coming from the other side of the door. As marketer, you cannot GENERATE your own pressure. That's why I pointed out the genius behind pre-paid legal. It transformed a biz that WAS if-you-need-it-you-need-it-if-you-don't-you-don't -- INTO a 'regualr' biz that COULD benefit from 'normal' BUG style mrtkng. It took it out of the DISadvantaged category (if-you-need-it-you-need-it-if-you-don't-you-don't), and placed into the ADVANTAGED category -- that enabling intrusive mrktng, and skyrocketing sales.

There is a Gimmicky Nature to the ladder. A nature that would probably see it NOT be taken seriously by tradesmen

>>>>>>>>>>>> Who said anything about tradesmen??? I'm saying, if you market that ladder to the general public (or any particular SECTIOJN (demographic, etc.) of the public), you will be waaaay better off going the intrusive route, than the lying-in-wait route. The infomercial (I'm guessing) does waaaay better than any website/seo/ppc ever could -- probably by 10-1, at least. 'Snagging' as much as you can from the already-existing momentum (the pressure coming from the other side of the door) will PALE in comparrison to generating one's own momentum.

So when the Foldable Ladder came out it matched what we already needed. They didn't need to Convince us of its usefulness. We already knew how we could use it. So for us, it was Pull, as soon as we knew it existed. For others, though, it was push.

>>>>>>>>>>> There's a key phrase there - not to be ignored -- "...AS SOON AS WE KNEW IT EXISTED." Again, not to get too confusing -- but if my sales letter got to you (first), doesn't that mean my push *caused* your 'pull' reaction? That is one of the primary jobs of intrusive mrktng -- to let you know it exists, whether you were (on your own) 'looking for' it, or not.

Again, evidence that a blanket push or pull statement does NOT apply.

>>>>>>>>> I'm not making any blanket statements. Sometines intrusive is better, sometimes it's not. I will say that it is often the case that 'bugging' can will do better by a factor of 10 -- and that most biz's don't realize that -- and don't realize WHY. Conversely, they 'chase' the dream of being a magnet -- and get seduced by that possibility, for LOTS of reasons.

However, even the if-you-need-it-you-need-it-if-you-don't-you-don't business can benefit from Constant Marketing - even if only in a local free suburban newspaper. Because while you or *I* might not need their services often, or only every few years, there is Always Someone who needs to use such a service. Sometimes they will Watch the ads for a month or so to make sure a business is still around. Sometimes they will call at the time they need, without such Ad Watching.

>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree.

Removalists. End of Lease cleaning services, lawn mowing, etc. All fit this area.

So even though you don't need to Convince people to use your Type of service, that doesn't mean you should stop marketing. But it might mean you don't need to market in the Front of the paper where it is costly and you might not get the Return you need. But at the back where such ads have a section of the paper devoted to them and where people Look to find such things.

>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree.

Even though you can say "Performance Based" you are now saying the same things as Scams and other Questionable people say. And the same thing anyone who bought Mike Enlow material say. You are unusual. The client needs too much education. A confused mind says "no". The fact is, they just do not TRUST you. Which is where the Existing Economic Relationship and any form of nepotism comes into play. And where, getting a foot in the door as a Rep of any kind will help you Prove yourself first.

>>>>>>>>>> I see your point. But, there are many reps who will not guarantee results -- Like I said, the radio ad rep, the newspaper ad rep, etc.

I said Lemmings because I meant Lemmings. Because Lemmings hint at Self Destructive behavior. And Big Companies often do what other Big Companies do, even if it is self destructive behavior. It's worse than being a sheep because of the self destructive nature of it.

>>>>>>>>>> I see. Yes, I agree.

And I never said which side of the debate I am on because I don't think there is a debate. The only debate is, calling something the wrong thing. And that's not a Debate, but a statement of fact.

ALL businesses can benefit from Constant Marketing - whether they are if-you-need-it-you-need-it-if-you-don't-you-don't businesses or not.

>>>>>>>>> I agree. But there are different types of 'constant marktng' which CAN be given labels. The labels I use (among others) are 'bugging' (or 'nudging') or 'intrusive' or 'active' vs. 'passive' or 'lying-in-wait' or 'magnetic' or 'being a magnet,' etc. What you call 'push' and 'pull.' Using terms like this is legitimate. It's not just semantics. There ARE differences. Both 'sides' SHOULD be implemented (in most cases), it's just a question of where to FOCUS one's efforts, and to what degree. ----- And I see a LOT of people run over to the wrong side of the ferry! -- and I know WHY they do it, too!

Michael Ross