What are "toll positions"? (A refresher post!)

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

Personally I think the "I'm the expert toll position" is in many cases more easily achieved and is easier to maintain long-term than the "find a product" toll position.

Thanks Mike... it's true, being the "expert" is also a type of toll position. That's why some consultants can get very highly paid... People feel that those consultants have expertise they need, and which they can't get from a cheaper consultant!

A quick example is Denny Hatch. He's an expert in direct response marketing, including copywriting. He took down his web page with his consulting fees, but you can still see the old version from 2013... At that time, he charged $700 per hour, or $5,000 per day, to consult with you about your business and marketing.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130530...tons/fees.html

He can charge $5,000 a day - and get it - because he has a strong "expertise" toll position...

Of course, there are many others who get even more... and they can get it due to their strong toll position as an expert...

In this day and age the ability to knock-off a product is beyond epidemic... which makes the lifespan of products (and a product toll position) shorter and shorter.

I think it depends on your protection. For example, it's extremely easy to "knock off" Mickey Mouse, and print Mickey Mouse T-shirts for example. However, you don't see too many of them around - at least in "Western" countries. The reason why is because Disney will legally defend their "toll position" and quickly put these knock-off artists out of business, and make sure they are heavily fined.

However, you need to have the toll position in the first place in order to do this!

In countries where protection for copyrights and trademarks is weak, it's a different story... But that doesn't mean you can't still make a lot of money, for long periods of time, in the many countries (including the USA) where the "rule of law" is strong...

Thanks Mike!

- Dien

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

I think it depends on your protection. For example, it's extremely easy to "knock off" Mickey Mouse, and print Mickey Mouse T-shirts for example. However, you don't see too many of them around - at least in "Western" countries. The reason why is because Disney will legally defend their "toll position" and quickly put these knock-off artists out of business, and make sure they are heavily fined.

However, you need to have the toll position in the first place in order to do this!

In countries where protection for copyrights and trademarks is weak, it's a different story... But that doesn't mean you can't still make a lot of money, for long periods of time, in the many countries (including the USA) where the "rule of law" is strong...

Thanks Mike!

- Dien

No question Dien copyright infringement laws (and others) are a great deterrent.

But first you need to have that "toll position" product in order to have something to protect.

Which brings me back to my whole point in all this... I think creating or finding or building a "toll position" is a difficult thing to pull off.

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

Which brings me back to my whole point in all this... I think creating or finding or building a "toll position" is a difficult thing to pull off.

Hi Mike,

I think different "toll positions" (obviously) have different values... For example, owning the copyright to "Psycho-Cybernetics" or "The Lazy Man's Way to Riches" is probably more valuable than owning the copyright to a book all about an obscure Australian radio play that ran in the 1930s/1940s. (A friend of a friend co-wrote the book I'm talking about - and he and the other author really struggled to sell copies, because it's about such an obscure interest!)

However, valuable toll positions can be bought, or you can do a deal. I recently purchased a set of audiobooks (in a non-business niche), produced by an expert in that niche, in which I'll own the copyright outright. The author put a lot of time and effort into it, and spent more money than I paid for it (and that doesn't even count the hundreds if not thousands of hours of his time), and it's a good product... it even got good reviews in established magazines in that niche. However, it's with these kinds of products where having some sales/marketing skills can really help... There are many people out there who create "toll positions" with great potential, who can't market them. If you can't or don't want to buy them outright, many of them would be open to a profit sharing type of deal. If you do this, just make sure you get the agreement written on paper (that contract will be your toll position!).

Best wishes,

Dien

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

However, valuable toll positions can be bought, or you can do a deal.

Here's another example I talked about recently... This is a deal which didn't work out - even though I did get a toll position...

http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35452

What I didn't mention in the earlier post was that I had a deal with the inventor (who owns the patent in multiple countries) for a percentage of the gross sales, if we got it to marketability. I would spend zero dollars of my own money.

It didn't work out because, although he wanted my advice, he insisted on doing the exact same thing he was doing before, which wasn't working. I pointed out why it didn't work before (and by implication, why it wouldn't work again), but he was very insistent on doing it the exact same way. I suppose he wanted me to perform some "magic" to make it work this time, when the exact same approach before had failed (and failed for very logical reasons).

I explained it in more detail in my earlier post...

After about a month, I said I'm no longer interested, as I realized I was wasting my time. (I've kept tabs on how things are going, and 3 years later, he's still stuck where he was before. He tried a Kickstarter campaign, which failed dismally - he got pledges for less than 3% of the money he was asking for. This is not a product which would lend itself well to a Kickstarter campaign, in my opinion. It's a good product, I think, but most of the people who would buy this product are generally not internet-savvy, and would never have heard of Kickstarter...)

What this shows, though, is the principle... You can get "toll positions" with zero money spent. But yes, there is some work involved in doing it this way... However, lack of money is not really an obstacle to getting toll positions.

Best wishes,

Dien